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Time to Put it To Use

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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby KGM » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:58 pm

Nice Youtube find, Oldhat. That video pretty much sums up everything I know. Changing one note of a dim7 = Dominant 7 was news to me.
Mreisz, I also like your idea of a 1 in 3 chance of hitting the right dim7, funny. If you do hit the wrong dim7 chord you could slide it up or down a fret and your odds would be 50/50!

As far as the "usage" knowledge I have to chip in, the dim7 creates tension like the Dominant 7. That's why you can substitute like they explain in the video.
In the Key of G major, the D7 wants to resolve back to G (V7 to I.)
The F# dim7 REALLY wants to go back to G (vii dim7 to 1.)
If you look at the chord top down( as per the D7-ish shape with the D# on the fourth string on the guitar):
F# wants to go to G
C wants to go to B
A wants to go to G (or B it's caught in between)
D# wants to go to D

Since Em is the the relative minor of G, it also can create tension to go to Em. That D# can want to go to E as well. So if you're playing G and an Em is coming up, your could whip out the F#dim7 and to walk it down to Em, or play a lick with those chord tones and create tension to set up that Em.
You can also use that dim7 to set up a Key change ( like G#dim7 to A)
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby Oldhat » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:25 pm

Thanks for the replies guys! Something tells me all of us messed around with the "absolute coolness" of the diminished chord on our geetars today!

That youtube video really done it for me, throw in your $0.02 worth Mike and KGM's analysis and I think I've got my head wrapped around it.

Is always cool to learn something new in music that you thought you couldn't figure out on your own..between Youtube and folks on this site I'd say there isn't much that would go unanswered

Oldhat - Proud owner of a bran' new view on diminished chords with a belly full of chic-fil-a - fat and happy!
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:05 pm

Oldhat wrote:Oldhat - Proud owner of a bran' new view on diminished chords with a belly full of chic-fil-a - fat and happy!

Doh! I got busy and didn't make it to Chick-Fil-A. Dang it!
This forum is pretty neat. There are a bunch of good people on here.
Mike

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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:15 pm

There was something bothering me so I went back to check...
Earlier the Answers.com answer had about making a Bdim7:
"To make it a diminished 7 or a minor 7b5 which is how it is most commonly referred to add the A

Chord tones: B D F A"

Did I pick a bad day to stop sniffing glue, or should that be a G#? If I am not crazy, then never mind my earlier post about "Beautiful Dreamer." I was keying my dim7 form off the A and was actually playing a Cdim7 (which fits lovely). My later post about KY waltz, I was keying off the bottom note, so that a valid progression.

Furthermore, I don't think a Bdim7 (has a G#) is the same as a Bm7b5 (has an A). Maybe I should go back to my glue sniffing.

If I am not crazy, I'll go back and remove the Beautiful Dreamer example to prevent others from being confused in the future.
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby Oldhat » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:06 pm

I seen that problem when I thought about it but decided not to say anything in fear of being the "local idiot"...I mean I asked the question so I'm the dumb one anyway....I'm rambling....yes the "answers.com" answer was wrong...go figure!

I just didn't say anything as I was not sure about the Dim chord at that point!

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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:37 pm

Thanks Jesse! It's nice to know I wasn't the only crazy one :)
I removed my beautiful dreamer example.
Thanks again for the original question. I learned some stuff today.
Mike

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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:47 am

KGM wrote:If you do hit the wrong dim7 chord you could slide it up or down a fret and your odds would be 50/50!

I love it. :lol: I think my technique might be to always make the chord in the same place and then just slide up or down until it feels right. Some might think I am just being stylish (instead of blindly searching for something).
Mike

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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby fiddlewood » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:03 pm

I just always repeat any mistake and they believe I meant it; my own interpretation ya know!
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby KGM » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:42 pm

Mreisz, you're not sniffing glue. You're on the right track. There's two different chords at work here.
The m7(flat 5) and the dim7. What's the difference? I wasn't sure. I had to look it up.
In the key of G a F#m7(flat 5) chord is:
F#, A, C, E
In the key of G a F#dim7 chord is:
F#, A, C, D#

They're both dim chords but why does one have an E and the other a D#?
The m7(flat 5) is a diminished chord based on the seventh note (F#) of a (G) major scale.
The dim7 is a diminished chord based on the second note(F#) of a (E) minor HARMONIC scale ( that's where that D# comes from)
G major and E NATURAL minor are relative. So when you bring a note from the HARMONIC minor to the relative major, it sounds pretty cool and out there.
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:39 pm

Thanks KGM,
After reading it a few times, it sunk in. Thanks again!
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