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Time to Put it To Use

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Time to Put it To Use

Postby Oldhat » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:52 am

Well it's official, post away on questions. I'm an "intermediate" myself on theory but can help the beginner.

I have a question and that is about the Diminished 7th in the major scale, anyone care to elaborate on where that gets used if anywhere? Isn't changing the major 5th to a 7 chord the same as playing the diminished chord? For instance if I am majoring in G and in my progression I go to a D chord then I go to the D7 before going back to G...isn't that D7 the same as an F#dim?

Please explain this diminished chord for me and it's application.

Oldhat
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Re: diminished chord

Postby fiddlewood » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:13 pm

from Answers.com:

Diminished chords are very cool, and easy to understand. Diminished chords serve a cadential function just like a dominant 7. Let's look at a dominant 7 chord construction in the key of C:

In the key of c the dominant chord would be a G

Chord tones: G B D

T make it a dominant 7 add the F:

Chord Tones: G B D F

look at the diminished chord in the key of C which would be a B Diminished:

Chord tones: B D F

To make it a diminished 7 or a minor 7b5 which is how it is most commonly referred to add the a

Chord tones: B D F A

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_d ... z22JcrwT48
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby Oldhat » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:57 pm

Um so in the case of majoring out of C then you could call the D minor a Bdim if add in a B to it?

I am still a bit lost on this diminished chord in the major scale and it's use....has anyone every used it in a song before? What genres does the diminished chord show up in or where does it raise it's head at?

Also the D7 I mentioned earlier out of G is a diminished only if I add a Flat 6th (Eb/D#) in replace of the open D. SO the diminished ends of being the 7th of the 5th with a flated 6th.

confused anyone?

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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:17 pm

"Um so in the case of majoring out of C then you could call the D minor a Bdim if add in a B to it?"
Based on what Dave posted, I think that is right. I guess the "correct" term for the chord is similar to whether you call something an F# or a Gflat depending on what key you are in.
Last edited by mreisz on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby Oldhat » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:19 pm

Found this to be and interesting watch on the Diminished chord:

phpBB [video]
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:01 pm

Very cool... since the intervals are all m3s, it makes sense that you can move a minor third and have the same chord with a different inversion.

So I grab an Adim7 on the top four strings (a D7 shape with a sharpened root on the fourth fret). I start moving up in m3s. Then I get to the 13th fret... hmmm I thought an octave lower we were calling that a D#dim7. It is! It seems that each dim7 chord is actually inversions of 4 chords.
So, make a D7, and then make the root a D#. Your notes are (from low note to high) D# A C F#. Since the intervals between each note are minor thirds, any one of the notes could be the root. So this one chord serves as D#dim7, Adim7, Cdim7 AND F#dim7.

If they said that in the vid, I missed it (I was playing with the guitar while it was rolling), but that's another cool finding. If you are looking for the right dim7 to play, just pick any of them... you have a 1 in 3 chance it will be correct :)
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:17 pm

You were asking about examples. Playing around with it reminded me of a song I have used it in. Basically it's in D, and the bass note walks down then back up to go to the 5 chord. The song is KY Waltz.
All this would happen during the normal time for the 1 chord: D (bass walks down to C#) F#m/C# (down to B) Bm (down to A) D/A (now it goes back to a regular D) D (up to D#) Cdim7 (up to an E) A/E

That's a cool little progression. I need to pull that one back out and play it some. When I find it again, I'll credit where I got it.

If the description doesn't make sense, I'll provide some chord charts.
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:55 pm

BTW, Jesse, thanks for posting the question. I feel like I have a new toy :)
Last edited by mreisz on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby ldpayton » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:24 pm

mreisz wrote: since the intervals are all m3s, it makes sense that you can move a minor third and have the same chord with a different inversion.

Augmented chords work the same way. The root can be named on any string and you get a different inversion by moving a major third.
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Re: Time to Put it To Use

Postby mreisz » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:58 pm

Good deal Larry. I knew that Berklee course you took would come in handy!
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